The morality behind veganism

[Leigha]

I've always eaten a healthy, organic diet as health and fitness has always been important to me. Not really a frequent consumer of dairy and meat, in general. Occasionally, I've enjoyed dining at a nice restaurant that is known for its delicious steaks. I've recently been exposed to a few documentaries on the horrific dairy and cattle farming practices that are taking place in Canada and the US. We are talking some of the largest dairy farms in these countries. The animal abuse that has been going on is beyond comprehension, and I wept in shock watching these videos. Not to mention, our dairy and meat supplies have growth hormones, and are often diseased, as many of these farm animals are not receiving regular medical attention. Most of the animals on these farms haven't seen daylight or touched a blade a grass ....ever. It is like I woke up out of a coma and have just been introduced to the horrors of unbridled capitalism. 

So, I think I'm going to take the vegan plunge - I can't in good faith buy products that have anything to do with animal abuse, and contaminated, inhumane food processing. 

Some things to think about: http://freefromharm.org/dairyfacts/

I won't post the videos here as they are horribly graphic but you can google those yourself, when you have time to view. 

I never quite understood the moral factor behind veganism. But, my many vegan friends have helped me see the light, and I'm going to make this my new eating lifestyle. If you wish to consume dairy and meat products, please just make sure that the company supplying the food, practices humane and ethical practices when it comes to their treatment of animals. 

What are your thoughts about the morality behind veganism/vegetarianism?

[Syne]

Or you could take to hunting, and field dressing, you own meat, where the animal is free-roaming, and a good shot is humane. The problem with this solution for world food supply is that, without farming, many species would quickly go extinct (which is why there are limits on deer hunting). You could also just research the source of your food and choose accordingly.

And it's naive to blame this on capitalism, as if that were the only cause. Unscrupulous people will continue to be unscrupulous in any economic system, with or without profit motivation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CFGWiT19U

[Leigha]

Or you could take to hunting, and field dressing, you own meat, where the animal is free-roaming, and a good shot is humane. The problem with this solution for world food supply is that, without farming, many species would quickly go extinct (which is why there are limits on deer hunting). You could also just research the source of your food and choose accordingly.

Totally agree. (although, I've never personally hunted for my own food) If people wish to consume meat and dairy products, at the very least, this experience has caused me to make people aware of researching where their food sources are coming from, and to ask restaurants as to the names of their food distributors. The problem can be hidden sometimes, too where you have to go through the layers of distributors before you find the very beginning farmer who started the whole supply chain process that leads to the consumer level. I can't help but think that so many restaurants don't even know the names of the companies and farms that supply their beef, chicken and dairy products.  

And it's naive to blame this on capitalism, as if that were the only cause. Unscrupulous people will continue to be unscrupulous in any economic system, with or without profit motivation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CFGWiT19U

I'm not solely blaming capitalism, but greed drives this, Syne. It totally does, which is why the execs who operate and manage these farms, turn a blind eye to rampant animal abuse. 

Something that is easy to test, is to buy eggs that are not from humane farms (usually these are the generic grocery labeled eggs/however, not all organic, vegetarian fed eggs come from humane farms, I've discovered) and compare them against eggs that originate from humane farms, and you will see the yolk difference. A humane farm egg has a bright yellow or near-orange yolk, and tastes much better than an inhumane farm egg. I've known this though, for a while. 

Thx for the vid, I'll look at it.

[Syne]

Greed is not a trait isolated to, nor even exacerbated by, capitalism. Capitalism just provides equal opportunity (for greed as well as ethical success), where maybe only the elite in a socialist state have that opportunity. In that video I posted, half of the people look to be poor, perhaps inflicting cruelty they have had visited upon them. And while socialism doesn't have any corrective measures, free market capitalism can change behavior when people support their principles with where their money goes.

Personally, I'm an anthropocentrist. It strikes me as odd that people who believe that we are just animals formed by evolution seek to usurp survival of the fittest, which entails reproducing as much as possible at the least possible cost.

[Leigha]

Abusing farm animals and providing tainted and genetically modified meat and dairy products to humans for consumption (that is what has been happening for some time), is not part and parcel of 'survival of the fittest.' At least not to me.

[Syne]

I'm not sure what you mean by "tainted", but GMOs have not proven harmful to humans. Are you an anti-vaxer as well? And "abuse" (at least in cases of mere confinement) would seem to imply some awareness in animals we have no evidence for. Most anthropomorphizing is not scientifically justified.

[Leigha]

I'm not an anti-vaxer.

''Mere confinement.'' Animals have needs and feelings, perhaps not on our levels, but they do. Being stripped from their mothers, and put into ''mere confinement'' is wrong, in my eyes. I'm not the animal moral police, but it just disturbs me to know that I've been ignorantly complicit as a consumer, in all of this. Some of these farmers should be in jail.

And by tainted, I mean...diseases whereby some farms take short cuts in terms of treatment of their cows, and then the general public consumes the meat and/or dairy products. After reading further about mastitis, I'll never consume dairy again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastitis_in_dairy_cattle

The majority of cows on factory dairy farms are artificially inseminated - literally keeping the cows pregnant without much of a break, and a cow's life span should be about 25 years, but the average dairy cow on factory dairy farms are averaging about 5 years. Because their bodies can't take all of the stress of being continuously pregnant and abused. It's really hard to fathom, but it's happening, and at alarmingly high rates across the US and Canada. Cows should mate naturally, but with artificial insemination, we are getting all of these trace hormones in our food supply, to boot...it's just disgusting.

[Syne]

Sounds like a lot of anthropomorphic belief.

[Leigha]

lol It's not my belief that these things are happening, it's factual. But there are humane farms out there that don't subscribe to cutting corners, and abusing their livestock.

[Syne]

You do know what anthropomorphism means, right?